What's peoples opinion on the them. I am having a bit of space problems (ya figure) on the tracker and I am concidering doing a three link on the frt end. I know they don't articulate as well as a 4 link but....... what you 2 cents?

really?. ,,a 4 link will out flexy a 3 link?, this i gotta see. In fact i say come show me, not that everyone needs it, but the stretchability of the Rocky Mountain 3 link cannot be matched by any 4 link set up, handling, well thats marginable, yet sorta adjustable, sacrifice a little wheel travel fer a tighter unit, er sacrifice speed fer insane travel........all depends on yer gig. a 3link deefinitly fits into tighter places, like around fule tanks and shit...
..oh yeah, rod ends, ball joints, heim joints, johhny joints, re express joints, anything with all them ghey moving parts,.....SUK!(last I checked none of them offer the 360degree movement joint ), bestest parts are right at yer local fomoco place,....(ya my fave is always rubber, not the 'prene)
_Anyone gotta pic of hatboy's rear set up?

If both are designed properly they will flex the same the limiting factor is the lenght of your coils, coilover, shocks or what ever you use.

I prefer the four link over the three becouse it is more stabel there is way less flex steer, and the diff doesn't move side to side as much as a 3 link. My yota uses double triangulated four links front and rear.

The 3 link is easier to fit into tight spots than a four link. there has also been some guys using the ford radius arm setup on the front for space and cost reasons and four links in the rear.

In mud racing we tend to lean towards a 4 link. Due to the fact at high speeds they tend to follow the contour a bit more. I am having some space issues so a three link may be my option in the frt. I have been setting up a plan on paper with this formula setting up anti squat ect but my brain is starting to hurt.Anyone have a formula they used and it worked? Hey on your toy are your links so long cause you were trying to keep em level or is there another secret? You used a double triangulated set up what degree are you lower links at? Rocky mountian three link? Got any info on it? I'm all ears!!!! It's looking like I am going to push the wheel base a bit this thing is damn short that it has a tendency to want to turtle on short steep climbs. I'm ready to start tearing into it but our snow in the valleys is pretty much gone and I want to wheel some more!!!!

well, these are old pix, i'll git some close ups of the mounts tomorrow.
.
..dr. Dave, cj7, r.m.o.r 3 link in rear leaves up front, winner of this years bog in drum in stock 44 class and runner up in the altered class, winner of the alberta safari ttc/05
.
.

..
Tim D.(wolf359), toyota cruiser (whats left ) TTC 2002 competitor, r.m.o.r. 3 link rear, r.m.o.r radious arm type 3 link front (panhard/trackbar) with coilovers.



both



Roger...cant remember total specs on his rig but its fukkin bad assed, gotta r.m.o.r. 3 link in the rear too.


a shot of mine from the rear


.
_I'll try to git some pix that show better geometry fer ya colin.

Thanks that would really help!!! Hey what are those rod ends they (and you) are using? Are those the 4" tj coils in the rear Ted? I notice there is no adj for the rear set up is it more important to have the frt adjustable or ?

I do think all RMOR three links were using Ford radius arm bushings for ends, not rod ends thus the 360* swivelability in the back.

MY links are so lond beacous Of the streatched wheel base it's about 128" stock is 110" and you want your links to as parrell to the ground as posible in any link suspension, Also with the custom subframe crossmember for the t-case doubles as the link mounting points.

Front links [image]
http://www.hardcoreoffroad.ca/April_30_2005_020.jpg[/image]
rear links

subframe

Flex with out body and stuff could be more or less with weight and body

I can't seem to steal the pic of any site but here on page 2 is evolution new buggy with double tri four link flexed out, those are monster truck shocks
// whiteknight.ca/FORUMS/index.php?showtopic=3797&st=15

stupid fukin puters
here's the front links


And the pic of the evo buggy is on www.whiteknight.ca in the pics and vids section under flex pics page 2
it;s the one with way to much flex
Dan

Damn those evo joints are big!!! Make mine look like lego. Hey Ted on your rear set up how stable is the rear diff laterally? My brother in law has the same truck that will see some hiway use (not much) Does it want to walk away on you? Sure flex's well.

Colin...something else to consider...the rod ends you have...you can get about 10 deg more articulation from them if you use a short bushing in them and use 5/8" bolts instead of 3/4". You have to use short pieces of tubing on either side to center the rod end...just be sure to use really thin wall stuff. That's what I did on the four link on the front of my rail. It'd flex a lot further than the rear with the 3/4" bolts.
Another thing....the further inboard you mount a rod end the more you gain on outer flex. Another thing I did when I redesigned the front on mine. I had the rears as far out as I could get them. It wasn't necessary but did cut down on articulation.

well i finally got home with some daylight, sorry fer my cameras shitty quality Colin but yu git the jist.








ford radious arm bushings, (post 1980)for the upper rear and lower fronts. chevy 3/4 ton leaf spring bushings for the upper fronts and lower rears. pro comp 4"tj springs, rancho 5000's(s5012), links, 2" 0.120erw const (lowers are 42"s long upper aint much shorter). i used late 70's f150/bronco upper and lower coil mounts, 2"x4" to mount to the diff, and utilizing the front of it to mount the lower shock points, using the nice studs that come with the ranchos.
(all of which can be had, with brand new shocks, springs, and bushings, assembled, and painted fer around the average monthly welfare cheque).

That's awsome Ted, answers all my questions. Brother in law is going to get that set up. (if you don't mind me copying) I have decided to do four link up frt and three link in the rear. Tj stock rear coils for the rear (if I can find em) and xj frt coils up frt. Oh ya Ted looky like you need a axle seal Hey do you have the number for Rocky Mountian Off Road (I think) (Red deer maybe?) I need to price the coils. Thanks

hmm, axle seal, yah...umm, I gotta wait until the season starts again and then I will just go klobber one on the head with an axle. I'm rippin the diff out right away anyhow fer to be put in a different project, and stikkin 60's in.
.
...Rocky Mountain Off Road, Red Deer, (403)348-0160
, yu might git a chance to talk to Mark, if yu can, tell him what yer up to, and how ya found out,
..also, it takes one full set of bushings for stock radious arms for each rotating joint, you ONLY use the largest ones, meanng it takes 3 sets of bushings total(for 6 arms). AND they only carry the urethane ones, they hafta order the Moog ones in. (I think Tim used the urethane ones in the cruisers last part of it's life)
.the mounting points....
...try to keep the center of the front mounts level vertically with eachother, (+/- an inch er whatever), and the same for the rear. try to achieve separation of the front joints vertically around 1/2 the distance of the rear. (I'll git exact figgers fer ya later, but i think mine is 9"s separation at the diff and 4.5"s at the front ) might be a little more but ya know what i mean, ya gotta werk with what ya got, and no matter what ya read and studdy, and fer whatever some folk claim to know,.........this ain't rokkit science, ...sure building a link set up fer ashphalt and speed is one thing,...but be damned if that same set up will werk in the hills without "adjustments" and shit......this set up werks, and is sorta streetable, but mine definitly isnt.
..side note, ( don't matter how far I stretch it, there is less than 1/4" slip yoke travel).I have bin fairly abusive, and never had u joint failure (not much fer pinion movement).
_Good luk , and when I rip the rear tire off this weekend i'l gitcha a good side view.

That would be great. Muchly appreciated!!!!!

A few things.
If you are gonna try and drive it on the street you will need a pan hard bar on the front regardless of 3 or 4 link unless you have hydro steering or hydro assist I'm told that the bump steer can be nasty. mines full hydro And won't see the street.

As for coils if your a bone yard scrounger several guys I know have been very happy with aerostar coils.
Dan

My weed wacker won't see the street at all I trailer it everywhere(stolen recovered insurance job) Dan are they using front or rear areostar coils? With the bro in laws rig we are going to start with the rear 3 link and build a roll cage and very small deck (loose the box)

I think they were using front's but I'll ask around.
If i was to use bone yard coils I would design my rig so the coil buckets were bolt on or some how ajustable to accept differnt diameters of coils. almost every one I know that is running coils or coilover's has been thru several sets' of springs before they got the ride just the way they wanted.
Dan

if yer bro in laws truk is a f150 then the aerobar, (light and bubbly) springs will be too light WAY too light. I believe Tim has f250(cant member lift) in the rear now cuz he added a little larger fuel tank. I am moving some weight to the rear too, and already plan to try something like bc bronco 5.5"s. I'm sure the aero's would be fine in yer wakker, but not in a fullsize truk.

Bro's truck is a 250 and we have decided on tj coils. mine I am going to play a bit with a good buddy has a junk yard so a few variations will be used.

Well I am not sure how this happened but the brother inlaws truck is in my shop and under the knife first. Cut the box off and cut it into tiny chunks. Now all the planning start's and part and piece collection. Ted what material did you use for your links? looks like we get to loose alot of frame off the back. Should look pretty cool.

Well I went and got my axle's this weekend from Angus (Mudlust) and after a slog through the snow (6 feet of it) I got them loaded up and home in to the shop. I wanted 85 new axles cause there wider but I got the older one's that are 58" so my track width won't increase at all. This also will limit the stuffability too. I was going to inboard the frt coils but there isn't enough room so pretty much the coil's sit on the old leaf spring perch. I got a line on a sammy tcase for my doubler but I am doubtful I will get to that this year. I was thinkin of piggy backing the sammy case with a coupling shaft to my wacker one. Who know's I may get to it.

I used 2" 0.120 erw, with no problems , but everyone else has bent the lowers with that thickness, it all depends on driving style I think.

Ok I have all my numbers and angles figured and am about to get going if it doesn't snow. Now this is my steering thought. I was thinking on building on the stock linkage, using the pitman arm and idler arm (upgraded to 97 f150) and was going to do a superrunner style with the inner tie rods comming off the main beam. The one question and concern I have is when the susp is flexed is it going to want to steer my tires. Kinda hard to explain with a keyboard. Any Ideas?

Hey Ted do you think these will work?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayIS...A%3AIT&rd=1 Let me know.

i would try them, cant hurt.
says they sold tho?

another RMOR inspired 3 link.....

Luke...lookin cool! What coils?
What you doing with the front?

coils are Rubicon Express TJ front 5.5" lift. Haven't decided if they're too tall just yet. Front has "custom modifyed" 10" lift springs. Have D60 front, just picked up crossover ram assist system for it used. With steering box, lines, ram, steering arm, draglink and tierod

Thanks! I was wondering about driveline angles. I'm having a time with mine right now. Remember my post on WK about CV'z on both ends of the driveshaft? Might be doing that. I've about ground off all I can from the single CV and it still binds. Gotta rotate my pinion up some more....that's just going to fawk up the caster. HMMM...I hate building roadworthy shit.

Rite on Luke!!! good to see the progress, give us a shot of the rear and the mounts, I'm curious as to why you went so steep on the link angles?

rusty.... nawt all double cardan shafts are created equal....

if you use 1310 joints with u-bolt strap's then try an source a explorer front shaft they are about twice the operating angle of the 70-85 factory domestic shit.... barring that start lookin on pirate.... theres alot of good yota driveline tek on there...

you havin issues with the front shaft er the rear one?

Thanks guys....yes it is the front shaft. Going from a Chevy 208 flange to a Yota flange. Using a conversion joint at the diff flange. Couldn't get a conversion joint to use the yoter driveshaft CV joint. It's a lot better than the chevy joint....has a lot steeper operating angle.
Yes...I've looked on pirate etc.
Lots of options...cut the knuckles off and reposition them to reestablish the caster angle...not my favourite.
Spend a whole pile of money at Jesse's Hi-Angle.....not my favourite at the moment.
Spend a whole pile of money on a Yota to chevy t-case adapter.
Throw a match in the shop and go to the movies....
Na...
I know what will work for lower speed aplications...it's the 60/70 mph/1500 foot "over the bank"logging road thing that's getting me. I want this thing to drive good at hi speeds also. I'm maybe wanting to do many things with this thing.
Ha...now that I've been through the chevy rears/Toy rears up front thing...I should have said screw it and went with links and coils...hmmm....someone mentioned that to me a long time ago...wonder who that was
Ya...I'll have to check out some other CV joints.
Only problem....here the wreckers like to get about $500 for a decent driveshaft. I WILL NOT help them buy their summer home on the lake....fukkers!

---

.
...(psssst, over here)
.I run single u joints at both end on my rear shaft and since the susp. change have never had to change one of them yet. Let alone only using about 1/4" slip yolk travel, the way it's set up the diff hasn't anywhere to go forward or aft.just all bendy like on the ends.

---

That's it? 1/4" of slip yoke travel...hmmm...mine uses that much when it "squats" after I put it in gear

Ted, I can get some closer pics on Mon. The mounts are solid mount with somekind of high density plastic on the passenger side. Shackled on the driverside. Claytons idea, apparently just like a Unimog mount system. Just to give it enough movement, so as to not break the frame when flexing. When the cage eventually gets tied into the front, the shackleside will become solidmount at that time.

The link angle was not supposed to be that steep. If I change to shorter coils it will flatten out the links somewhat.

Im going from a 208 to a yota diff, i have to replace my front dshaft soon, ill try to take a look in a bit to figure out what was done to it. Im in brooks right now and my truck is in penticton. Im pretty sure its a toy shaft with a converision joint between the cv and tcase, i could be wrong though. I dont have much flex but it has never given me any problems, other than my splines are wore out now

Demon, that looks good!!! Are you going to shorter coils or are you going to build longer links? If you are gunna buy shorter coils let me know if you want to sell the old ones! Rusty if you are going to rotate to pinion and are concerned about the caster you can rotate those back to stock. i have done this years ago and I see they did it on extreme 4x4 but they had a fancy digital anglometer. Ted junkyard part's here are regarded as good as new or better. It sucks when they quote you on a used piece and it's $30 more than new. I have some better sorces but not like Alberta. As for my weed wacker if it doesn't quit snowin here I am never going to start on it.

well guy's..... you had better build a shoppin list fer me if thats the case..... PYP is pretty reasonable compaired to yer wreckers.

Well the snow's been fallin steady here so I plowed the yard and went for a chew and got the little wacker in a tough spot. I ran my winch line and started to right my wrong and my damn winch quits pullin. I tore it all apart and found a long 5/16 shaft that runs from motor to planetary had broke!!! I had to figure why and I found it. My buddy had build me this bumper and didn't have the two hubs square to each other so it was pulling and making this little shaft rub inside the planetary. Anyone know how much force is on theese shafts? I was thinkin of sleaving it and welding it back up!?! Any ideas? I got the tracker out and have some new dent's for my trouble's.

What kind of winch?
Can you grind both ends of the break down to almost points then 100% weld them...then grind or turn the shaft back down to size? A 5/16 shaft can't trasmit a whole pile of torque anyway...I'd try it. Just clamp it in the V of a piece of angle iron...weld what you can then put a couple of short pieces of angle inside the first one to allow a space for the weld to hang down as you turn it. Sounds crude but you'd be suprised how good it werks.

not sure what brand but it's a 6000lb $200 kind Thanks for the suggestion. Local steel shop says they could get 5/16 but I will have to buy 12' of it. So I am looking for an alternative.

If it's just a simple shaft...get some drill rod (O1 or A1...prefer O1).
Graingers or the like sell it in 3 foot lengths. You can heat treat and draw it if you need to.
Oh ya...keep your damm snow over there.

rebuild it with a chevy starter motor like the ole ramsey 10,000lb's use

What's Graingers?

Acklands. They called it Acklands-Grainger here for awhile now it just seems to be Graingers

I think someone wanted a rear view?

and the mounts closer...

DS


PS

Sooooooo continuing in true HIJACK fashion........got the leather buckets installed

Holy monster bolsters! You won't be falling out of them things
Nice lookin seats...out of what?

S'agood thing..........cause the doors ain't goin back on.


I gottem from Wailer a while back. came out of an '80s mustang. I doubt they were OEM though, not sure of the make.

You going to put some fancy tube doors on?

Ok well I have doing some searching for info on coil shocks and I was wondering if anyone knows what to look for and if they have seen any used ones for sale ect.

well I'm in the middle of a diff swap, so i hadda make some stuff, Colin this is what my lower coil reatiner/shock mount looks like.

.bolt on retainer, nice free rancho shock stud mounty thingy

Ted I was starting to set up the bro's truck yesterday and I was wondering how long yer lower link is? Did you have to remove the cross member that the ecable's went through?

Hey...a birdie crap on that piece on the left?

I was wunderin if'n yu were gunna pik on the shitty welding, or the roach filled piston beside.
Colin, my lowers are about 44"s, the upper comes close to hitting the crossmeneber you speak of, never has hit, but I am removing it now to make room fer a fuel tank, pto apparatus fer the winch, and the rad.
(yer gunna put another crossmember of sorts across ontop of the diff fer shock mounting points anyways right?).

cool thanks Ted I was going pull it. Yep there is two more cross members, one fer dem shocks and one fer upper link.

Thanks fer the tip rusty, (I spose thats what ya git fer lettin a fitter weld, yu know just like ya shouldnt give a welder a tape measure )
Colin, theres no need fer another crossmember fer the top link, just some frame boxing and and then weld the upper mounts to it (if you are goin the similar route with chevy leaf spring bushings?)

oh crap that's way too easy. ok back to the drawing board. I built all the little (1/2") tabs for the diff today. I got the lower frame mounts handled. Now I just need a welder that works!!!!!!

Quote:

---

.......and turn up the stove a bit.

---

errr... we wont even touch that one....

dan'l
Colin, always remember the formula, smokes, beer, other, and..
Keep
It
Simple
Stupid

Well the tracker is in pieces up on the blocks. diffs are togather enough for mock up. i still have some problems with space, mainly for the frt upper links. i may have to loose the cat I won't be able to have the upper frame mounts adjustable for antisquat but i will make due with what I have. Waiting for the coil's to show up for Bro in laws truck, 90% of the fab work is done now. Thanks again Ted.

Finally the tj springs showed up. Game on

finally got my gears today! Took long enough! 3 weeks is too long

Well the frt end is done on the tracker took it for a drive it may need some sway bars, I had no brakes so I kept it in the yard. Ya not my best idea I have to go home tonight and mend a fence!!!

right on, ....I HAVE TO!!!! git my rear done here in the next 2 days, I have all the pieces cut they just gotta git into the spots they need to be in.
Then a brief interlude whilst I git to replacin the lovely dual mass in my powerhouse .
_(new front pieces are all cut and ready to be stitched up too,)
.
...what Colin, no pix?

Saturday i will sit down and load up some pics. finished the brake's lastnight I'm not completely happy with the line lines yet but it will work

Well I figured out how to put pic's up a few weeks ago and the puter let a piston go!!! New Dell is on the way! Can't up load pic's on shop puter. (policy) But the cracker on in most part done. I have one brake line to make and fill all fluids ect. Puter will be here in a few weeks so I will dazle all with my new knowledge on pic putting up thinggy!

lets see if this works.....old pic after the front was done

SWEEEET work there, Colin!

Took it on it's first run last night. It crawls better not good but better flex's nice but it's an absolute ass to drive down the road it get's a death wobble at 40k and it won't stop until you do. I am going to have to put in a panhard bar! Unless someone else has any other suggestions! Oh and I stood it on the rear bumper twice, that was sportin!!!!!

Nice work on that lil bugger. Im tryin ta get motivated now too...... got the 44's on the back now though. yup she's 91.5" wide

Looks really good! Mine still fits in my back pocket!!! I now have rci belt on my side wife wanted to keep the sholder belt on her side and I have the aux battery wired and secured in the back. Now I need exhaust and more dents.

nice work Colin!!!!

Can I have your photobucket site url? I'd like to add your pics and any avail mod info to my Bronco/Ford truck/van site.

be well!

Ya I have to burn a cd and load it from a different puter due to I only have dial up ya i know but high speed is 2k away with no posibility of it comming anytime soon.

Getting there slowly!!!

Interesting ramp to try out the flex but what ever works and nice threads ya got on there.